tv This Week With Christiane Amanpour ABC August 29, 2010 7:00am-8:00am PST
good morning, i'm christiane amanpour and at the top of the news this week, from the crisis in the classroom -- >> education is the economic issue. >> -- to the junk in the cafeteria, how american schools are failing children. will your child survive in the global economy? >> the stakes have never been higher. >> this morning, reforming how children learn. an exclusive debate with secretary of education arne duncan. randy weingarten, head of the american federation of teacher and michelle rhee, chancellor of washington, d.c.'s public schools. plus, reforming what fuels children in the classroom. one man's fight for good food and healthy test scores. >> the epidemic of obesity is killing people. >> an exclusive interview with emmy award-winning celebrity chef and activist jamie oliver.
then -- >> we need help. >> katrina, politics and the economy. analysis on our roundtable with george will, democratic strategist donna brazile, susie gharib from "the nightly business report" and richard haass, president of the council on foreign relations and "the sunday funnies." >> miss iran, yes, disqualified for enriching uranium. hello again, everyone. and consider this, students returning to class this week are less likely to finish high school than their parents and they're falling behind students in other countries scoring lower in science than their peers in 28 nations and ranking 35th in math behind countries like
estonia and azerbaijan. the obama administration is attempts the most ambitious school reform in a generation but also sparked battles with teachers' unions over accountability and merit pay. the secretary of education says that those countries that outeducate america today will outcompete america tomorrow. >> how are you doing. >> with $100 billion in federal stimulus money and a close personal friendship with the president, arne duncan has an unprecedented opportunity to reform education in america. >> education is the civil rights issue of our generation. >> duncan, former ceo of the chicago school system, learned the importance of education early on. his mother ran an after-school tutoring program. >> well, i was lucky enough to have ingrained in me is your destiny. every child can be successful.
>> a former professional basketball player, duncan is playing with a local basketball team in louisiana. he's on an eight-state back-to-school bus tour and he's got business to do, smoothing ruffled feathers amongst the teachers. >> what are we not doing or what should we be doing different? >> you're welcome to the classroom. >> thanks for all the hard work. i appreciate it. >> the administration's teacher reform plan is controversial. duncan is calling for schools to use data on student achievement to evaluate teachers, a measure long opposed by teachers' unions, but aimed to make sure that children get the best in class. >> in education we've been scared to spotlight excellence. >> reporter: duncan says that student performance and growth should also be used, but teachers are uneasy about having their work tied to student test scores. >> how are we going to assess
teachers in different ways, because testing is not the way, mr. secretary. >> it's clear that teachers are frustrated. >> why am i paid as if i'm the lowest of the low when i have your child's mind in my hand more than you do? >> duncan supports paying teachers more based on how well their students perform. at a union rally in louisiana -- ♪ we are family >> -- duncan assures teachers that he wants them all to work together. >> we have to do so much more to elevate the teaching profession, to say thank you. >> and secretary duncan joins me now, also president of the american federation of teachers randy weingarten and michelle rhee, chancellor of the d.c. public schools. she joins us from sacramento, california. thank you to all of us. let me go straight to you because that last -- i saw you both nodding in that last piece where really you have to do more together to try to get the
teacher situation in the classroom situation better. what can you do to make people like randy weingarten and teachers feel secure about how you're trying to reform and weed out the bad teachers? >> well, i think we've had a fantastic working relationship but let me be clear. i think randy weingarten will lead the country where we need to go. we have to elevate the status of the profession and can't do enough to recognize great teaching and shine a spotlight on success and we have to be willing to challenge the status quo together when it's not working and seeing that in happen in district after district around the country. thanks to randy's leadership and courage, that's not an easy feat on her part. >> you are speaking very nicely about each other for the moment. there's an issue that's just come out in los angeles, as you know. "the los angeles times" has been investigating a school district there and as today put up data about teacher evaluation, student performance, all on the website. so it's accessible.
now you think that kind of data should go out and you don't. >> well, i think actually -- i'll let the secretary speak for himself. but i think the issue is we're all grappling with is how you make sure that teachers are the best they can be. failure is not an option and i think what's happened is that we're all trying to figure out how to make teaching which has always been an art into an art and a science which is why data is really important but what the "l.a. times" did is used this data, which is unreliable and is basically prediction and an assumption, they used it in isolation of everything else and so we said, let the teachers see it. let them use it. in fact, they are starting to do that in l.a. but don't publish it in this way. >> the tragedy in l.a. has been the teachers as randi said want this data and have been denied it. teachers want to get better. it shouldn't take a newspaper to give them that. the distribute, the union, the stakeholders have to work together to empower teachers.
this should be a piece of how they're evaluated and just a piece. every teacher wants to get better. why does it take a newspaper to give them what they want? in california there are 300,000 teachers, 300,000. the top 10%, the top 30,000, would be amongst the best teachers in the world. the bottom 10%, the bottom 30,000, you know, there's some real challenges there. no one in california can tell you who is in the top 10% and who is in the bottom 10%. something is wrong with that picture. >> let me turn to michelle rhee. because she's had to deal with this directly in her own school district. michelle rhee, you have caused quite a lot of controversy. you've got a lot of supporters and a lot of detractors over what you're doing here in washington, d.c. i'm just going to put up the picture of the "time" magazine cover when you came in. you with the great big broom stick basically, signifying that you're going to sweep out the dead wood, so to speak. you got a certain amount from the stimulus funds.
how did you do it? how did you get rid of something like 241 teachers and get the unions on board? >> well, we certainly sat at the table with the unions to craft a contract that we thought was going to be good for kids and fair to teachers. we completely revamped our teacher evaluation model so that it was more aligned with how students were actually performing, so in our new model, 50% of the teachers' evaluation is based on how much they're progressing their students in terms of the academic achievement levels, 40% is based on observations of classroom practice, another 5% based on how their school is doing overall and then the final 5% based on their contributions to school and community so based on what secretary duncan just said we're looking at multiple measures and based on that we can identify our highest performing teachers and lowest performing teachers. >> let me just quickly ask you because the figures from 2007 to 2009 showed a significant achievement in closing
achievement gap but the latest figures that have come out show that that is stalling. how do you fit that into your plan? >> well, i think what it shows is that it's just incredibly difficult. i think for decades now we have been trying to figure out as a public education system how do we close the achievement gap? how do we make sure that race and socioeconomic status are no longer the determining factors of a child's educational achievement levels and we've made tremendous progress over the last three years under our mayor, mayor fenty who controls the schools in washington, d.c. but it's not a one-shot, silver bullet solution. it's going to take a lot of time to get to the point where we can say that we've closed the gap. >> let me turn to you, randi and i sort of commissioned a prop. i mean it's the teacher union contract with the city of new york and it's very, very, very thick. and it means that it's very difficult to actually get rid of teachers who are not performing. we've checked something like
seven teachers were let go this year for bad performance out of thousands of teachers in new york. and there's so many -- so much evidence in los angeles, as well, of it taking years and hundreds of thousands of dollars to get to the bottom of this situation. how do you get through that impediment to good teachers. >> well, actually let me say this, first, the states that actually have lots of teachers and teacher unions tend to be the states that have done the best in terms of academic success in this country. and the states that don't tend to be the worst. the issue is not a teacher union contract or a teacher union management contract. what we have to do with these contracts is we have to make them solution driven. we have to use them to solve problems like we have just done in the new haven contract like to some extent we did in the contract that was negotiated in washington. but --
>> the question really is about who gets kept, who gets fired, who gets merit pay. >> so this is the issue. no one, myself included, wants bad teachers. we talk about bad teachers and good teachers all the time but we don't actually spend the time talking about the overwhelming number of good teachers who do a superb job and need the tools and time and trust to do that. in terms of teachers who are not doing what they need to do, both the secretary and myself have been a johnny one note about changing evaluation systems. that is a key which is what we've both talked about and talk about in terms of practice and student learning. once you do that, which we are now doing in the union ourselves are doing about 50 or 60 districts throughout the country, you help people and if you can't, you counsel them or sever them out of the profession. at the end of the day, teachers,
this is probably the most important thing i can say, teachers want what students need. they want to do a good job. they want the person next door to do a good job but they know we need more than just ourself. >> let me ask you then about the new curricula, about the new standards for measuring teachers and classroom performance and you've identified in the present something like 5,000 failing schools where you need new principals. can you really do that. >> we have to as a country. let me be clear we have to educate our way to a better economy and we're all united, randi, michelle, all of us, we feel this urgency. we have a 25% dropout rate, that's 1.2 million students leaving our schools for the streets every year. that is economically unsustainable and morally unacceptable. we have to get that rate to zero as quick as we can and increase graduation rates and make sure every single student that graduates from high school is college and career ready so the status quo is not going to work
for the country. we have to get better and we all have to work to get to that point. absolutely as fast as we can. >> one of the other controversial points and i'm going to turn to you, michelle rhee, is the sort of pay for performance or merit pay for teachers. you have instituted that in your school system here and how is that working? >> so we're just about to announce in the next couple of days the highest performing teachers in the district, the most effective and then we will give merit pay to those folks, a bonus for last year and then it will impact their pay moving forward as well so that we will be able to pay the most effective teachers in the district almost twice as much as they used to be paid and i think that's incredibly important because one of the things that we have not done in public education in the past is differentiate between the types of performers that we had and it's incredibly important to recognize and reward the people who are doing heroic work in our classrooms every single day, just as important as it is to ensure those who are not
performing we're swiftly moving them out of the classroom. >> one of the issues i think you have said in your -- to pay teachers for math and science. try to pay teachers to go out into the poor and rural areas where they're desperately needed. do you think that will create teachers who just now want to teach math and science. is it going to sort of subvert the balance of classes? >> i would love to have that problem. for the past couple of decades we've had a shortage of math and science teachers in our country. how are going to compete in a globally competitive economy if our students don't have teachers that know biology and chemistry. we've had very few incentives for the most committed teachers and principals to go to inner city communities and rural communities and children in the neighborhoods who need the most help. education and talent matters tremendously. great teachers are the unsung
heros in our society. they perform miracles every single day. how do we get the hardest working, most committed to the children who need the most help? we have to be most creative. let me clear, financial incentives are a piece of that but a small piece. you need a great principal. you know a -- you need a supportive community, all of us have to work together. you have to create the climate and culture where great talent want to serve where most needed. >> you identified a crisis. >> that's what is so complicated. >> a million teachers will be retiring by 2014. how dow you incentivize them? >> this is what's interesting. the gates foundation just did a study of 40,000 teachers and what they said was what is number one for them is to have a supportive real environment in which they can work with each other and have a supportive principal. now, we have to pay teachers competitively. it's tough right now because the economy is so bad but we have to pay them competitively and then
we have to do some of these differentiations. as the chancellor said, we negotiated that incentive pay plan unlike what happened in terms of the evaluation plan. we've negotiated lots of plans all across the country but it is about multiple things. good teachers supported by good leaders, really good, robust curriculum. the conditions to -- for kids so that we can eradicate the obstacles to failure. and the last thing i'll say is this, we've watched other countries outpace us, but let's look at the country that now out paces us the most, finland. when they start doing the things that the secretary and i are talking about, really focus on curriculum, focus on how we make -- how we help teachers be the best and the brightest, have supportive principal, have the conditions that help eradicate student failure then kids succeed. >> let me ask you, michelle rhee, and maybe it's something for both secretary duncan and you, you've called it a civil rights issue, education. >> absolutely. >> but of course many in the civil rights movement, amongst
the minorities and blacks here are saying that in fact we should be giving -- you should be giving this the stimulus money not based on performance and innovative proposals but based on need because there's such a need. how did you deal with that in your schools? michelle? >> well, first of all, i mean we totally disagree with the notion that the right thick to do in terms of putting resources into the school districts is to continue the formula funding of the past that has completely failed children and particularly poor and minority children in this country. what the secretary and the president have done through race to the top is said we're going to incent innovation. we don't want to maintain the status quo. we want people who are going to be aggressive about really reforming their districts and who are serious about that and we're going to give the resources to those states and to those districts and i think that this idea that somehow by just continuing to give all of the districts the same amount of
money over and over again is going to produce a different result is absolutely mad. >> interesting. we have a piece of information, a graphic showing how parents feel about merit pay and we'll put it up right now but basically amongst parents, 72% say, yes, that teachers should be paid based on the quality of their work and 28% say, no, they should be paid standard scale. now that's pretty much the same amongst public school parents and parents nationally. is this the way to go? >> it's a piece of the answer but, again, this stuff is complicated. what we've done through race to the top is you're seeing the vast majority of states almost 40 states raise standards for every single child. as a country we're dumbing down standards and reduced them due to political pressure and lying to children and parents telling them they're ready when they're not. we're all working to raise standards. creating wraparound service,
after-school program, tutoring, mentoring, counseling is important. figuring out how to get the best talent and engaging parents in more creative ways. there is no simple answer. all of these things working together but, yes, we have to shine a spotlight on excellence. we have hundreds of thousands of teachers who are beating the odds every single day performing miracles. we have extraordinary schools closing the achievement gap, great, districts, great states. we have to learn from excellence. answers are all out there. >> we have to wrap now, one of the things i was going to ask you it seems that the schools you have put the money into, 12 states you've given race to the top funds, 30 or more states which have had innovative programs, probably wouldn't have done that had they not have that incentive to do so. >> actually they're -- actually, look, i give the secretary a lot of credit for this. but we have to help all kids. and so what happens is that some of these programs particularly the ones that are collaborative, what we have to see is how they
work going forward because the goal is not just some kids, but all kids. >> thank you all. we have to leave it there for this morning but thank you, secretary duncan, randi weingarten and michelle rhee for joining us in this conversation. and the fight for better performance in the classroom can also be linked to the food fight in the school cafeteria. a new government study finds children who eat school lunches are more likely to become overweight. childhood obesity here and around the world is now a public health crisis. the school cafeteria has become the front line in the fight against obesity. that's where children consume 40% of their calories every day. so what they eat here can determine their future. >> it's time for a wake-up call for all of us. >> led by the first lady, the obama administration has launched a task force on obesity with a keen focus on healthier food options in schools. >> we have to act so let's move. >> last month the senate did and passed the healthy hunger-free kids' act. it still needs house approval
but will provide $4.5 billion only half of what the white house requested to help schools cover the costs of healthier ingredients and expand free lunch programs. it'll also prohibit certain junk foods that kids so often crave but breaking habits will be hard. >> fat, sugar and salt stimulate us to eat more and more and they condition and drive our behavior. the fact is the brains of millions of americans are literally being hijacked. >> we are at a crisis point. >> retired rear admiral jamie barnett, a 30-year navy veteran sees america's fat crisis as a national security challenge. 27% of americans aged 17 to 24, the prime recruiting age, are too fat to fight. according to barnett's mission readiness study. >> the alarm bells should go off
in all of our heads when we have that many, 9 million young people, who couldn't qualify for the military right now. >> experts agree that attitudes toward food need a massive overhaul to reverse these alarming trends. >> it needs to be pleasurable. it needs to be enjoyable. we can't demonize food, so the challenge is much greater. >> and that's where celebrity chef turned food activist jamie oliver comes in. >> any salad at all in the house? >> no. >> his healthy balanced approach to food made significant strides in british schools. now he's brought his food revolution here to huntington, west virginia. it was ranked as the unhealthiest city in the country so oliver blanketed the city with fresh and local produce and taught the people here how to make healthy choices. >> i need you to know that this is going to kill your children early. >> jamie oliver plans to continue his campaign around the
united states and just last week he won an emmy for the "food revolution" which was shown right here on abc and i spoke with him earlier. jamie oliver, thank you for joining us from london. >> my pleasure. >> apparently one in three american children are either overweight or obese. in england they say by 2025, 40% of brittons could be obese. how will it make inroads into this situation? >> of course, it's all about food education. i've been trying to focus my attentions in the last seven years on tangible change, stuff that gives you a really good value, bang for your buck, and, you know, schools to me, where your kids are, 180 days of the year, often eating breakfast and lunch seems like such an incredibly powerful way to make dramatic change, not just on what the kids physically eat, but also where they can be
educated about food so i mean i think there is massive things that can be done and it's not rocket science. >> what were you able to accomplish in england, for instance? >> let's be really blunt. when you go into a school situation with lots of teenagers and you change their lunch, they want their chips. they want their fries, they want their burgers, their patty, their sloppy joes. when you go in and you deconstruct it into proper food, you know and bring in nutrient based food into that situation, of course, there's uproar. when you take away their french fries, it's almost like messing with their religion. you know, it has a dramatic effect. and, you know, ultimately i think, you know, is it worth doing or not? and, you know, change is tough. >> to that point i want to ask you specifically because a study has been done by oxford university scientists and it did actually show some good results for your cause. >> yeah, i mean, look, basically
we went into a zone of london called greenwich. we had basically about 37,000 meals a day to provide. and what we did, we had an independent survey done by oxford university and essex university and it showed that the only reason that they could find within a five-year period for a rise of about 16% in math and in english and a downturn in, you know, illness and absenteeism, you know, the only reason they could find for this was the cultural change of food. and nowadays they have proven if you feed your children good food, you know, your brain, its ability to remember, its attainment is about 7% to 10% more efficient. and that is why this new bill that's, you know, going through, you know, capitol hill at the moment is so important. >> you're following the child nutrition act which is working its way through congress. what specifically are you looking for it to achieve? >> this bill is probably one of the most important health pieces of work in the last 50 years in america. it can and it has the ability to
save lives and certainly improve many. the cost as of this february, you know, to -- of obesity to america is about 150 billion a year. the money that they're talking about supporting this bill is pathetic. it's completely irrelevant to the scale of the problem. 4.5 billion to be spent on this incredibly important bill over 10 years works out, 7 cents per kid per day. you know, so i think my kid worry is cash and what i mean by cash is cash to put proper food on the plate for american children and also to train the cooks of america that work in school and it's not just school, as well, it's old people's homes, it's any civic catering at all. >> and what did you find in the united states when you brought your good dinners, your jamie oliver food revolution to west virginia. it was designated that
particular town by the cdc as the most unhealthy in the country. >> the tri-state area of west virginia came up with some of the highest figures of heart disease, diabetes and diet-related death. it's not a glamorous thing. they're actually not the worst anymore. i think they're about number five now instead of number one which is great news. what we tried to do in the town was very simple. we took over all of the schools in the area. we took them from processed food to fresh food and as much local food as we could get. we did it on budget and worked with all the school cooks. we put a kitchen in the middle of town and this is the biggest town, you know, in the tri-state area and we offered free cooking lessons to anyone that wanted to come and we're fully booked all the time and we have people from 7 years old to 85 years old coming in to learn to cook. but what i found really was vulnerable people that didn't know or have the tools to make good choices to nourish themselves or their family. that's generally what i found.
>> when you were here, you also went on david letterman and he said this to you about the likelihood of success with this revolution over here in the united states. >> try as hard as you might, you're never going to succeed because we are living in a culture dominated by the commerce of selling food which is inherently unhealthy. >> so what do you say to that? >> in the one way he's right. you know, the structure of commerce and food in america is so intertwined in broadcast, print media, advertising, tv, i think that the problem we have to have and it's an interesting one, i'll throw it back at you. like fast food i've hated for many years and the last two years that i've stopped and i actually now start to see them ironically as part of the solution. now i give you one brand like mcdonald's. mcdonald's in england is -- has had its best three years ever profitability.
it only sells organic milk, free range egg, you know, it's got incredible standard of beef and their ethics is really moving but that's nothing like the one in the states and the only, you know, distinguishing part is the public. what they expect. you know, for me from what i've learned from america is if you can be humble in your approach, work with people and let them find -- let them find this food revolution, i think they have the capacity to change more aggressively and better than any country in the world. i believe that. that's my belief. >> on that note, thank you so much for joining us, jamie oliver. >> take care. thanks for having me. and next, we move on to the economy. the recovery summer that isn't and five years after katrina. analysis from our roundtable with george will, donna brazile, susie gharib from "the nightly business report" and richard haass from the council on foreign relations. foreign relations.
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we are dealing with one of the worst natural disasters in our nation's history. >> we need the national guard. mr. bush, please send somebody down here to help us. >> the situation grows ever more critical for those stranded in the city. >> please help us. i'm asking for anybody to help us. >> remembering katrina on this, the fifth anniversary. one of our topics for our roundtable with george will, susie gharib anchor of the nightly business report and richard haass, president of the council on foreign relations and author of "war of necessity, war of choice" about the iraq war and democratic strategic donna
brazile. welcome to you all. good morning. we're going to start with the economy, of course, because it is at the top of everybody's minds and some of the stats that came out this week on the existing home sales in july. they were down 27.2%. new home sales in july down 12.4% and also the second quarter gdp revised downwards to 1.6%. where does the country go from now? >> well, the question is does the country go anywhere or are we in for some people say a lost decade such as japan has had, not a double dip in recession, but sort of a flat stagnation. the problem is, that we seem to be having something like a general strike. that's usually a term of the left indicating a labor against capital. who is on strike now are, a, the investing class partly because they're getting free money at 0% interest rates and they can put that in safe investments or in
government bonds and make a tidy profit, the banks can, and consumers are on strike. the consumers are still heavily in debt compared to their historical norm and have seen their 401(k)s wither and are becoming frugal which is normally a virtue but now an inconvenience. >> the federal reserve chairman made a statement on friday. i mean, he basically said that they're standing by ready to do what they have to do if it gets to dire. is it not dire? >> no. >> go ahead. >> i mean the situation is difficult right now but he's saying that we'll pop up if the situation gets really worse. the real question is does he have the tools to do what it takes and this week alan blinder who used to work at the fed had a piece on "the wall street journal" where he was saying the fed is running low on ammunition and the ammunition that it does have is the weak stuff. i mean he's saying at the height of the financial crisis the fed was using things like machine guns and hand grenades and now
they're fighting with swords and throwing rocks and, you know, even the fed is -- bernanke is saying that there are options, but, you know, don't count on us the fed alone, the central bankers to solve the world's problems. it seems like he was hinting that maybe ultimately the washington is going to have to step. >> exactly right. the fed is essentially played its hand. interest rates are as low as essentially they can go so we can't look to the fed to get us out of it. i also don't think, by the way, we can look to stimulus to get us out of it. we had one. it didn't have the effect people wanted plus at a time of budget deficits i don't think we'll get a stimulus that will be large and focused enough that will make a difference. instead, we actually have to return to first principles. we can't we have a gradual reduction in budget deficit and have a more predictable economy about taxation. why can't trade reform, open trade come back on the agenda we need some
policies of growth business is sitting on an enormous hoard of money. we need to create an environment and political environment where american business will spend and start to hire again. >> yet congress are divided and afraid to put more money back into the system although most americans should know by now that the stimulus did create a -- or saved 2 million jobs and averted the depression 2.0 but congress doesn't have the appetite to put more into the system so the fed may have to step in there. there may be more tools in their arsenal to try to stimulate the economy but 45% of those who have been unemployed have been unemployed for six months or longer. they desperately need the skills and the tools to get back into the workplace. >> which goes back to our education debate which we had at the beginning of the program. >> i think richard makes a very good point. right now the debate is you have to go beyond the conventional cures of fed policy and also these piecemeal stimulus measures and this weekend "the washington post," a noted economist wrote a piece saying
we got to start thinking out of the box. maybe structural changes that have to be made. more pro-growth tax reform back to your education case. more support for education, a job retraining, things like that so i think the debate is moving more in that direction, what are the structural measures that we have to take. >> can i ask you donna and george -- i'm going to put up this quote from mark zandi talking about the administration. they've played their policy hand and they've got to hope it's good enough. there's nothing they can do to make a significant difference in the next six months or even a year. >> it's very difficult to go to the country as i think donna would have them do and say the government today is dangerously frugal because in fact the government is borrowing 42 cents of every dollar it's spending this year. there's no appetite in the country or congress. the democrats had been planning to have an election eve armageddon debate about
extension of the bush tax cuts saying this is sort of class war argument saying this is tax cuts for the rich. now the democratic position increasingly is the bush tax cuts were reckless, the bush tax cuts were inequitable and thud -- they should be extended. >> the bush tax cuts are unaffordable. we cannot simply afford another $700 billion in debt that -- and there's no evidence that the bush tax cuts will create jobs -- >> but there are some who are saying perhaps that might happen. >> i don't -- >> the democrats are under some pressure to maybe keep them on. >> i think they are under pressure to keep and extend those tax cuts that will benefit americans who earn $250,000 or less but there's no evidence that given rich people more money will help create the economic conditions that will put more people back to work. >> let's -- go ahead, richard much then we'll move on to the politics which is tightly connected. >> exactly but we also need to think about not slipping the tax code in isolation. they have to be married to spending cuts.
look what germany is doing. growing now in part because they are carrying out economic policies of some responsibility and some restraint. the international markets will not fund this level of american -- as bad as things are now they could get a lot worse. we simply will not be able to sustain this trajectory. >> the difficulty, of course, is very significantly, you know, senior economists differ. i mean some are saying exactly the opposite. they need much more ease of stimulus, and only then start with the deficit so i think for a lot of people is confusing that economists at the top, top levels disagree but because of all of that i think that's also causing quite a lot of anxiety amongst voters, certainly we're hearing it all the time. i was at the rally, the glenn beck-led rally of restoring honor yesterday down on the mall and certainly i got that impression from people. that they were anxious about what's going on. whatever you think of the politics of it, you get the impression that when these speeches come on people want
something to feel good about. donna, what do you think about what happened and what i've just said? >> well, i think what glenn beck has tapped into is a reservoir of fear and anxiety right now across the country. because most americans just don't know. they don't have a firm grip on the future. they know that things are out of control. there's chaos in washington, d.c., and yet glenn beck has been able to become their prophet. their prophet not of hope but perhaps he's been the person who has spoken to see things return to a bygone past that may never come to fruition again. >> and the election results this week, the primary results, i mean, what did that say? again sort of anti-incumbency? >> take alaska where senator murkowski lost. that seat had been held by her or her father who appointed her to it for 30 years. now, this is exactly what sense the country is rebelling against
and i think the real message of alaska that ought to alarm a lot of people, i think the polling models this year are all wrong. she was genuinely surprised. her polls showed her winning if not overwhelmingly, comfortably. the polls are not picking up the change in the turnout and the composition of this year's electorate. this year's electorate is going to be older than the general election last year, it's going to be whiter, minorities are less apt to vote in this kind of election. and it's therefore going to be more conservative. >> well, the pundits can't cut a consistent story line about the election results. one week is anti-establishment. one week they want more experience and george is right. there is an undercurrent in the country of voters who are simply disgusted with the politics, what i call the status quo politics and it caught lisa by surprise. senator murkowski by surprise. it will catch many other folks by surprise. >> let's put up this ad.
a democratic ad. let's put up this then we'll talk about it. >> bobby bright voted against the bailouts, against stimulus spending, against the massive government health care and bobby voted against the trillion dollar federal budget. >> i like jason altmire. he's not afraid to stand up to the president. >> and nancy pelosi. >> that may not be what the washington crowd wants but i don't work for them. >> so -- >> there's a missing word. those were democrats, right? >> right. >> but you didn't hear the word democrat. >> that's why we put that up. >> yes. >> but it also doesn't connect. a lot of these people are against the federal government doing this, this and that except until it affects their social security, their medicare and the rest. americans are not putting it together. it's where these general feelings of frustration are still not creating a political environment where congress and the executive can do what this country so desperately need. >> somebody was saying to me
last night, look, it was wall street by and large that practically took the country over the edge and yet people are lashing out against the government. >> well, you know, let me just say with the wall street view on this whole election thing is that it's all coming down to jobs and so if the unemployment rate gets up to double digits and we're getting close, almost at 10%, that that's going to make it very difficult for incumbents. it's going to be more about the job market and so the markets are already pricing in a republican win in the house and maybe a pickup of a few seats in the senate and this is going to lead to, you know, some kind of good l >> let's move on -- do you want to say something before we go to a katrina which is also close to your heart. >> it's very close to and it's sill tat makes me very emotional but wall street at someneed icke batart playing because up until this point most americans undrstao helping >> and earlier previously on this program we actually talked
about how much profit that actually businesses and wall street have been making but it's not going back into investments and hiring and spending so that's also obviously to be discussed but let's go on to katrina. five years later, the pictures none of us ca were you there when it happened? >> no, i wasn't. >> your family certainly was. and obviously it's taken a lot of time, a lot of money to restore it. what are your feelings today, donna? >> well, you know, it's mixed. it's been a mixed recovery. the largest reconstruction in american history. yet, there are some neighborhoods, some communities that have not come back. many of the people who left thinking that they could return simply has been unable because it's a different city. while you see more tourists than ever, the restaurants are back, there's still many americans who simply cannot afford to regain their footing back in the city. it's been a blessing in other ways. many people have found a new path to living elsewhere and i've seen people come back
really invigorated. they're resilient. they are as strong but we're still not there yet. >> the population of new orleans today is about 355,000. that means it's about 100,000 down from what it was. and probably the population today actually fits the economic capacity of the city better than it did then. furthermore, one of the problems of new orleans was a calamitous public education system. they had three charter schools before katrina. they got 51 now. a majority of the kids are in charter schools because the state stepped in. took over the education system and it's much better for that. >> and the government has just put in $1.8 billion to replace some of those destroyed schools. >> i think one little insight into the revival of what's going on in new orleans is that what's going on at tulane university. you remember that tulane had to shut down at the time of katrina. and now we're hearing that this year they got 44,000 applications for 1,600 slots of freshmen. four times what it was pre-katrina and the dean says it
was more than what -- the number of applications more than what yale got and what he says is that some of this is because of, you know, what happened, katrina, you had a lot of kids coming -- with school groups and church groups helping in the rebuilding effort and now, you know, they decided to apply to a school. and the interesting thing on population growth is a lot of these graduates are getting jobs staying in new orleans and that is adding to population growth which could be a good thing. >> there's also a big international story. for a lot of people around the world they saw katrina five years ago and gave them a glimpse of america they didn't know existed and in some ways like our economic problems and mosque debate, what is a reminder is what goes on here doesn't stay here. what we are is as much of a foreign policy of what we say and do and katrina was one of the things that hurt us. it hurt the american model and made it impossible for us to
preach to others. you've got to fix your societies given what was going on here so an important reminder. foreign policy by example, who we are, what we do for better or worse has a powerful effect. >> one of those examples was the war in iraq and this week the president is giving a televised address from the oval office on the withdrawal. where do you think -- what are you thinking? >> he has to be careful in two ways. one, before he claims too much success he has to be careful about all the ways iraq could still unravel. five, six months after the election you still don't have a government. the fault lines in society are deep and pro-found. he has to be careful about claiming too much. when it comes to iraq. >> very much. >> electricity is intermittent. 75% of households are not connected to the sewage systems. you have terrible poverty. you have a semi autonomous region called kurdistan. >> we'll talk more in the green room. lots at stake. and that you can see at abcnews.com/thisweek where you
can also find our fact checks in connection with politifacts. i have the first northern american interview with tony blair in advance of his release of his memoir contract the journey." it begins airing on "world news" wednesday night, "good morning america" and "nightline" on thursday and on "this week," next sunday. and we'll be right back with "in memoriam." ml." it can help cut commute datatimes by 50%,s reduce carbon emmissions by 14%. on a smarter planet, we can capture, analyze, and use data in new ways to do what they're doing in places like singapore and stockholm and build a smarter transportation system. let's build a smarter planet. presenting the cadillac "summer's best" sales event. a fantastic opportunity to get a great offer on an all new cadillac srx luxury collection crossover... ..with a bose premium sound system. and an ultra-view sunroof
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that i feel that our country is in, a crisis of leadership. ♪ what a wonderful world >> we try to give you a stargazer, a taste of the cosmos. we're like a celebrity hors d'oeuvre. we want to give you a taste and make you hungry for more. >> we remember all of those who died in war this week. the pentagon released the names of 11 soldiers and marines killed in afghanistan and iraq.
and now "the sunday funnies." funnies." there was ging there was good for u.s u.s. muslim relations. iranian president mahmoud ahmadinejad has appointed a new ambassador. >> prototydent ahmadinejad, in fact, unveiled a prototype over the weekend of this very weapon calling it the ambassador of ambassa
>> you really don't understand >> you the concept of diplomacy, do u? >> we have a new miss universe, we we have a new miss universe, miss mexico. our new miss universe from mexico and good luck in arizona. no incumbent out last night suffered a more decisive defeat than senator john mccain, who last evening was rejected by voters for his anti-tax cuts, antiborder fence views. instead they voted for a candidate who took the exact opposite position of john mccain dark horse john mccain. i'll be right back with our picture of this week. rse and silverado half-ton have each been named a consumers digest best buy. they like that chevy backs the quality with a one-hundred-thousand mile powertrain warranty.
finally, our picture this week -- the miracles 2,000 feet underground. images of 33 chilean miners found alive. nasa scientists, international engineers are helping figure out how to supply the miners and stave off the emotional stress of possibly of having to wait until christmas to be freed. a lone tv set, set up for families, beam out the images. thank you for watching and we'll sue you next week.
>> in the news this sunday, a man suspected of shooting a police officer in oakland on friday is captured just before he was about to cross the border into mexico. >> five years ago today, hurricane katrina made land fail. president obama heads to new the kincaids live here. across the street, the padillas. ben and his family live here, too.